Is there something truly wrong with being an Atheist? I mean, it is a free country so why are we treated differently for having this religion? I think there are enough of us to the point when you ask us our religion and we say Atheist it shouldn't be unnerving or frowned upon or followed by the stupid question, "Why are you an Atheist?" I loath when they ask why I'm an Atheist, especially in that, "Oh you must be hurt; God bless you," sort of way. Why would I want God to bless me if I DON'T EVEN BELIEVE HE FRIGGIN' EXISTS!?!?!
I don't know... I guess I'm just pissed after getting asked, "why are you an Atheist?" too many times last week.
Anyways, here are some questions for you to answer in a MySpace Bulletin sort of way. (Just write the number of the question and then your answer.)
1)
Why do you think Atheists today are treated differently for not having faith?
2)
What do you think we could do to help Atheists stop being treated this way?
3)
Answer this one very truthfully: Would you have seen God if no one had told you about him/her?
4)
(From above question) If not, then why do you see him/her now?
5)
(From above question) Do you understand why we don't believe now?
Example for an answered question 1:
(1) Because so many people now-a-days have religions. But when they come across someone that doesn't see the "spiritual fourth dimension" it's hard for them to understand.
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7 comments:
1)
Why do you think Atheists today are treated differently for not having faith?
I think that they are really not. If you are with in a group of say Christians and you are not, they will probably ask questions. If you are different and someone is asking you questions, this is a good thing. They could learn allot and so could you.
Years ago, or in another land, you could be considered a heretic and put in prison, or cast out of the city, or worse- killed!
Less than 15 years ago, China was putting Christians in jail!
2)
What do you think we could do to help Atheists stop being treated this way?
See, here again. I am sure that sometimes atheist are treated badly. Some atheists give other atheists a bad name. In other religions there are bad seeds as well. As in any faith (or lack there of) it is important to surround yourself with, not just people who believe exactly they way you do but, to surround your self with people who truly support you as a person. That way when you encounter hate, and we ALL do, you can be more equip to deal with it.
3)
Answer this one very truthfully: Would you have seen God if no one had told you about him/her?
For me: the answer is yes. When my neighbor talked to me about God for the first time, it was like she was giving me a name to a face of a person I already knew. It was as Oprah would say- an "a ha moment" for me. I guess it was my first one ever. I was five.
4)
(From above question) If not, then why do you see him/her now?
5)
(From above question) Do you understand why we don't believe now?
I have to admit that I have trouble understanding why someone would not actually see God. I am willing to talk it out and learn more. The idea feels so empty, and having God is so full. I think that the problems in the world today are that people put their beliefs over everything else. When faced with the inevitable fact they might be believing wrongly, the fight harder to hold on to them. Then, they forget the values that brought them to God in the first place. The values that God has and all humans should have. Truth, justice, happiness, love, and compassion. I know that there are many more.
There is always going to be differences among people. We as individuals get to choose how we handle these differences.
One more thing. I touched on this on my last comment but I wanted to expand here, I think that what atheists lack is a community. I mean, when you are an atheist- where do you go? Other religions have a church where they meet together. They know they are not alone. Atheists don't really have that and because of this they feel alone. Atheism or agnosticism is actually the third largest "religion" or lack there of in the world (and growing). Atheists think that they are more rare than they actually are.
Recently, I attended a first meeting of an Atheist church. They were attempting to deal with this very issue. I did understand the need for this "church" for them- I was contributing to the conversation and when they found out I was not an atheist, they pounced on my like I was a naive bunny and they were rabid wolves.
I will tell you that love nor tolerance was the objective of this church. I was hoping for more from them- especially since most atheist think they are soooooo smart! They even talked about the intolerance of other religions but, were unwilling to dole out any themselves when given the chance. They were down right mean. I'll tell you this- I am the first to admit there are problems in almost every religion, but as an atheist- go to a Christian church. Most would never treat you like that! They would not insult your intelligence or assume that you know nothing. You may get an answer that doesn't make sense to you, you may even get questions about your life or why you believe what you believe. They may even say that they will pray for your soul. Maybe, this is insulting to you because you do not believe as they do but, they do have their hearts in the right place, however misguided they are.
I was angry and insulted when I left that atheist "church". Quite frankly, I am not sure why I was invited to it in the first place.
Atheist or not, I would not want to be that kind of atheist anyway.
Mar, I sympathize. As an atheist I have felt persecuted, even hated, and mostly keep my lack of belief in god(s) to myself. I've taken to calling myself a freethinker, mainly because it is more inclusive, and non-atheists who have been survey view it in a more positive light.
1) Why do you think Atheists today are treated differently for not having faith?
A. Atheists make up between 8 and 10 percent of the population (less than what you purport Polly). Atheists also tend to be more intelligent and better educated than most of the population. Whether education leads to atheism, or higher intelligence corresponds to atheism is still a little blurry. It might be a combination of both. Frankly, I do think perception of god is rooted in the brain (and you can't really argue with this even if you do believe in god).
That said, since atheists are currently a minority, we are viewed as weird and anomalous. However, this percentage is about the same as that for the gay/lesbian community. As the GL community has come out and asserted an identity and culture, the greater culture has proven to be less hostile and more accepting. There are still horrible persectutions and stereotypes of GL people, but in the last 30 years the greater culture has gone from from complete abhorrance to tolerance, if not an embrace (even if means they think every gay man can decorate a room).
The difference for atheists is that there is no real community to rally around. Atheists can't really be "out", and lack of belief in god, or even the desire, is considered a sin worse than murder in most religions(or sodomy, for that matter). It's a huge gulf that is impossible to cross for most theists, because not believing in god is so unthinkable - their entire belief system is tied to that one belief. To throw it away, to them, means that everything else is thrown away as well. They believe that atheists don't believe in things like "love thy brother" or "do unto others.." which is totally ridiculous.
2) What do you think we could do to help Atheists stop being treated this way?
A. The biggest thing is that theists need to know that not believing in god doesn't mean that atheists are without morals, conscience, or even spirituality. This is a huge challenge to theists - most organized religions go back to god, and use that belief in god to force conformity to any number of other beliefs and actions. It's sort of a cop out. The thing that atheists bring to the world is the ability to question authority. As atheists, we need to show others that they should understand and question what they believe in, and never trust that anyone else knows what they should believe in. We all can benefit by understanding and routinely questioning the underpinnings for our individual morals.
I don't think we should hide, I don't think we should "deal with the hate". We have a lot to contribute to civilization, and lurking in the dark won't help anybody.
Simply through exposure (and not having it crammed down their throats - as much as I would love that), the greater culture will become tolerant, and see the positive side of having atheists around.
3)
Answer this one very truthfully: Would you have seen God if no one had told you about him/her?
A. No, it would never have occured to me. When I was little, I thought everyone was crazy. I didn't even believe in Santa Claus, so God seemed totally ludicrous. It never made sense then, and it doesn't make sense now. When I learned about other religions, and particularly Greek and Roman mythology, and I could see Christianity in a global/historical context, I could understand how belief in God developed in society, but it didn't account for why people still believed, even with the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
Church was painfully mind numbing, confession was uncomfortable and felt pointless, though communion was a highlight because I liked the idea of getting free food (even if it tasted stale).
4)
(From above question) If not, then why do you see him/her now?
A. I don't of course. I question my atheist beliefs on nearly a daily basis (I do think about it alot, more than I want to really), and the more I think about, the more I feel that god is a product of the minds of men. Oh how I would love to meet an alien civilization and see what they think about the idea of god. They'd probably think it very funny.
I have done a lot of reading about non-monotheist faiths. It's been quite illuminating, and have found that my personal spirituality, which is rooted in nature (and not society as the monotheist religions are), is not uncommon. It's also very ancient, something that appeared in all indigenous societies, and predates the origin of the monotheistic sky-god about 6000 years ago in human culture (sorry theists, but your god only appears after the advent of written culture, and first in the desert tribes of the middle east).
I don't worship nature as a monotheist worships god, but I have a reverence and communion with nature, and when understanding the universe through science.
5)
(From above question) Do you understand why we don't believe now?
A. I'm not sure this is an illuminating question for theists. Again, it goes back to the fact that their belief system. Take away that linchpin belief in the existence of god, and everything else falls apart for them. It is incomprehensible for them.
I think that Polly has a good attitude about it. Open mindedness is a plus, but I still think that that core belief in god is a huge hurdle to get over.
" The idea feels so empty, and having God is so full."
That's an interesting insight. I think that is an expression of spirituality, not religious dogma. There is a physiological reaction to the idea of god - an internal feeling that isn't different to other forms of spiritual experience - the fullness.
Being an atheist does not preclude spritual fullness. It is not emptiness. Atheist do not feel or interpret their spiritual experiences as the actions or presence of a supernatural being. So it is a difference in the form of experience. Again, I think it goes back to what's happening in the brain.
As for an atheist community, I think that is ridiculous to mimic a church. Churches are a horrible experience to begin with, so why reconstruct them? Churches are built to homogenize people's thoughts, but atheists value individuality, debate, and free thought. Churches serve secondarily as a social support structure, and that's probably what those atheists were aiming for in the beginning. I think the idea is futile.
If you want to get together with other atheists, go to university! The porportion of atheists is higher the higher in education you go. I know! When I was teaching college, the majority of my colleagues were atheists, with a few Jews, New Agers, and Buddhists thrown in. Christians probably made up less than 20% of the faculty. This isn't because Christians are being turned away from teaching jobs, there is no bias in hiring. There just are few Christians pursuing careers in higher education. Those that do tend to be liberal Christians. This has produced a great hostility towards educators from the general population.
Universities are the happiest, safest feeling places for atheists, and on occasion you can be completely "out". It feels great. You can also connect with others and be exposed to new ideas (which atheists love). It's not about have your beliefs confirmed by others, but rather, being stimulated by active minds that aren't tied or restricted to a central dogma. Atheist minds tend to roam wildly over the whole terrain of human thought and imagination. If you are not making excuses for a core belief, you are truly free. That's what it means to be a freethinker.
In defense of my statistics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_religious_groups
http://web.ovc.edu/peppercenter/survey/world_demo.htm
Non religious is the third largest population in the world.
More interesting statistics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claims_to_be_the_fastest_growing_religion#Non-Religious
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion
Polly, non religion does not mean atheist! It just means that someone is unaffiliated. They may still believe in God(s).
Here are a variety of stats:
http://atheistempire.com/reference/stats/main.html
Atheists: 0.4% of the US population
http://www.adherents.com/Religions_By_Adherents.html#Nonreligious
Atheists: less than 1/2 of 1%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_atheism
Atheist: 3.8% globally, France 19% (maybe I should move there)
http://www.pitzer.edu/academics/faculty/zuckerman/atheism.html
Atheists OR agnostics in the US: 8% (ha! there you go)
By country, atheism can get as high as 20%, this doesn't count communist countries.
Interestingly, the fasted growing religion in the world is Wicca, and evangelicals are stalled out.
More stats-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
What would then constitute non religion then, that is not atheism or agnostic? I am sure the Unitarian Universalism cover some so called non religious people (even some atheists and agnostics) and also the "other" category would possibly cover Wicca, and Native American religions. There is also a "non denominational" category in both Christian and Non- Christian religions that would probably cover other believers, right?
Even if your statistic is correct- agnostics and atheists are not the smallest religious (or nonreligious) minority in the US or the world for that matter. They are also not even close to the most persecuted. I would have to say, it would be harder to be a Muslim in the US than an atheist!
Also a direct quote from this page-
"the greatest increase in absolute as well as in percentage terms has been among those adults who do not subscribe to any religious identification; their number has more than doubled from 14.3 million in 1990 to 29.4 million in 2001; their proportion has grown from just 8% of the total in 1990 to over 14% in 2001"
This says to me that they left Christianity to identify with no religion at all. This does not guarantee that they are atheists but, they are certainly not really any thing else. They are most likely agnostic. Even if they didn't attend church regularly they would still identify themselves as with a church if they believed in it even a little (or for some just grew up in a certain church).
http://atheistempire.com/reference/stats/main.html
According to this site that you refer to here- they blue in 4 groups that I assume to all share similar views that the people who built that site share possibly. What would be the difference between humanism and atheism?
According to this site (www.secularhumanism.org) humanists are generally non theist. So wouldn't those count?
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